Plat/PLing for cash... Can it be stopped?

[Requiel]

The buffbot argument is a separate issue, however consider this: If the buff lines were taken out of the game - either completely or placed on NPCs - then imagine what sort of shakeup that would cause and the amount of players who play buff classes actively who'd feel very strongly about that.

Regardless of how fair changing the buff system would be, there are a significant number of players who would be upset with such a drastic change to their characters.

[Arcsalin]

I had actually considered that in my last reply and had said as much. Like I said, there are ways around this just that the dev's have to get creative with it concerning BB's

[Xest]

If I ever managed to get an opportunity to beta test future Mythic releases for this game I would jump at the chance but that's not likely to happen.

Mythic aren't picky anymore, last couple of expansions have been open to anyone with an active US account, if you create a trial account you may even be in for a chance of testing the new expansion LotM although I guess it'd be dull without a higher level char to charcopy onto Pendragon.

The buffbot argument is a separate issue, however consider this: If the buff lines were taken out of the game - either completely or placed on NPCs - then imagine what sort of shakeup that would cause and the amount of players who play buff classes actively who'd feel very strongly about that.

Regardless of how fair changing the buff system would be, there are a significant number of players who would be upset with such a drastic change to their characters.

Don't think people would care too much if there were NPCs that fully buffed you, frankly the few (let's face it we're talking as many people as you can count on one hand) who feel it would be sad that they weren't the only way to get buffs are an absolute minority compared to the droves of people who have quit over not being able to get buffs.

I think most people's problem is that banning rl trading of items/pl and not bots seems hypocritical and gives the impression that bots are okay because they benefit Mythic financially but trading isn't because it only benefits some players.

[Requiel]

Mythic aren't picky anymore, last couple of expansions have been open to anyone with an active US account, if you create a trial account you may even be in for a chance of testing the new expansion LotM although I guess it'd be dull without a higher level char to charcopy onto Pendragon.

Don't think people would care too much if there were NPCs that fully buffed you, frankly the few (let's face it we're talking as many people as you can count on one hand) who feel it would be sad that they weren't the only way to get buffs are an absolute minority compared to the droves of people who have quit over not being able to get buffs.

I think most people's problem is that banning rl trading of items/pl and not bots seems hypocritical and gives the impression that bots are okay because they benefit Mythic financially but trading isn't because it only benefits some players.

While obviously buffbot accounts do benefit Mythic and Goa financially, it's not true that RL trades are banned because they benefit a third party. They are banned because they can potentially destroy the game economy and because they obviate the very point of the game. Why play the game if you can just pay to get ahead? Why try and achieve things in game if it's easier to buy the reward? If you can buy items, then why not buy levels? Master Levels, Realm Ranks? Why play the game at all, buy the box, tick the 'gold content' field, put in your credit card details then sit back, watch the end credits and reflect on a job well done.

Secondly, buying an item, an account or plats is not the same thing as having a buffbot account. Yes a buffbot will give you an advantage over an unbuffed player but not having a buffbot does not mean you will be at a disadvantage. Primarily this is a social game that encourages grouping and co-operation. If you choose to play in a solitary way and interact as little as possible with others then is it the fault of the game that you are disadvantaged? Even if you are solo, not having a bot of your own doesn't mean running unbuffed.
As I said before, I don't have a buffbot and have no intention of getting one, it doesn't mean that I never have buffs or that I can't play at a decently competitive level.

[Tuthmes]

Primarily this is a social game that encourages grouping and co-operation. If you choose to play in a solitary way and interact as little as possible with others then is it the fault of the game that you are disadvantaged? Even if you are solo, not having a bot of your own doesn't mean running unbuffed.
As I said before, I don't have a buffbot and have no intention of getting one, it doesn't mean that I never have buffs or that I can't play at a decently competitive level.

Ill will fully agree with you on this part, though... My assasin/archer wont get groups. There are other chars that hardly will get into any group. So it might be just the mentality of the other players, or as a community as a whole. It doesnt change the fact i cant compete if i don't have buffs or am not grouped. For example: The rr5 sorc with a DI/BG bot stuck to it.
It might not mean you'll never have buffs, but the question is do you want to beg and w8 for buffs or go out unbuffed. Or w8 for a group that wants to have you. Both way's you'll spend a lot of time w8'ing for something that could take more then a day, especially now that bb's dont stand at dl anymore.

[Xest]

While obviously buffbot accounts do benefit Mythic and Goa financially, it's not true that RL trades are banned because they benefit a third party. They are banned because they can potentially destroy the game economy and because they obviate the very point of the game. Why play the game if you can just pay to get ahead? Why try and achieve things in game if it's easier to buy the reward? If you can buy items, then why not buy levels? Master Levels, Realm Ranks? Why play the game at all, buy the box, tick the 'gold content' field, put in your credit card details then sit back, watch the end credits and reflect on a job well done.

Secondly, buying an item, an account or plats is not the same thing as having a buffbot account. Yes a buffbot will give you an advantage over an unbuffed player but not having a buffbot does not mean you will be at a disadvantage. Primarily this is a social game that encourages grouping and co-operation. If you choose to play in a solitary way and interact as little as possible with others then is it the fault of the game that you are disadvantaged? Even if you are solo, not having a bot of your own doesn't mean running unbuffed.
As I said before, I don't have a buffbot and have no intention of getting one, it doesn't mean that I never have buffs or that I can't play at a decently competitive level.

Yeah don't get me wrong I can understand the potential effect it can have on a game's economy but what I'm saying is that I don't think bots are really any better, i.e.:

Why play the game if you can just pay to get ahead?

Isn't that pretty much the same probably people face with bots? only they're so widespread now it's a case of "Why play the game if you can't afford/don't have the hardware to pay to get ahead in terms of buffs". I think the point people are trying to make RE: buffbots is that buffs are essential in RvR nowadays unfortunately and that if you don't have the financial means to run a bot either because you can't afford a second account or a PC to run a bot then you're screwed, there is a limit to the amount of people who can afford bots and I'd wager a bet that the people who can are the ones still playing whilst those that can't or at least face the issue of bots only being able to support a set amount of players and hence often don't get buffs are the ones who have long quit. Essentially I'm sure everyone remaining in game falls under the umbrella of being able to afford to run a bot themselves or being one of the fortunate few guaranteed to be able to get buffs off a friend.

[Cryn]

Very nice to see such an active policy from GOA, whatever the success rate.

However, for me the obvious question to ask - as a gaming company - in this area is "Why are people willing to pay MORE to have someone else play their character through some pieces of the game than they would pay in subs to achieve it themselves?"

The fairly obvious answer is that during the nth iteration, which in some cases could be the first play through, those parts of the game are not enjoyed by a section of the community, even though later parts of the game (that the player is paying to get to) are.

That being the case, and assuming player enjoyment (and hence extra subs) is the main goal of the company, why the heck are gaming companies not doing more to allow people to bypass these parts of the game? One thing that would kill the illegal pl/item trading stone dead would be provision of a server where characters could be created at L50/ML10/CL5 with whatever selection of items the player desired. People who like PvE would not need to play there, but there is a section of the playerbase who just want to RvR who could then quite happily find which one they like most and would probably stay in the game a lot longer.

Tune in for my future soap boxes on such topics as "Play the game without voice, you muppets" and "Give sylvans proper helmets" (rated 18 )

[Gandelf]

In response to a couple of points that have been mentioned, I would like to say the following:-

Buffbots do give players an advantage, if not, then why do players buy multiple accounts if not for giving buffs to their other characters? How many players, for example, would create two characters on separate accounts that were the same class? Answer—they wouldn't! It is obvious that if you have two accounts, that you are going to create characters that complement each other, i.e. to give your characters an advantage, or at least the chance to compete with other players who have buffbots!

It is my guess that in the early days of DAoC players realised that if they had multiple accounts then they could gain an advantage by creating buffbots. Of course, now we're at the stage where a lot players have buffbots in order to compete. You can't get away from the simple truth that if buffbots weren't necessary, then players wouldn't have them!

Is it fair that those who don't wish to buy multiple accounts (either through choice or lack of funds) should have to be the exception, rather than the norm? It's all very well to keep saying that it's not against CoC to have more than one account, but multiple accounts which are used to create buffbots are partly responsible for degrading the game and I wouldn't be surprised if the game has lost players because of that fact.

I have to admit, NPC buffbots would dishearten buff classes, who by and large would no longer be needed, except maybe for healing etc. Also, it would be virtually impossible to stop people buying multiple accounts, so it's also going to be hard to prevent buffbots from being created. So, the whole situation is frustrating. Is there any way to make it so that inactive characters, or characters that have given buffs but who are not within constant buffing range of those they have buffed could be automatically be logged out after, say 5 minutes tops?

If there were no buffbots, then things would surely be more equal for all players?

Primarily this is a social game that encourages grouping and co-operation. If you choose to play in a solitary way and interact as little as possible with others then is it the fault of the game that you are disadvantaged?

The other point is that some players prefer to play solo. I know, because I do! I hate having to rely on finding other players to group with in order to complete a quest. So, in answer to Requiel, yes, the game is at fault! Basically, it is discriminating against those who wish to play solo. A solo player should be able to achieve (but perhaps by other means), what grouped players can achieve. Maybe not as quickly, but with the same outcome. It's not necessarily the player's fault that he/she is the way he/she is by preferring to "go it alone"; it could be the fault of upbringing or how society has made that person. As such, the game should be designed to award the solo player exactly what those who prefer to group are awarded.

Too many mmorpgs are based on the idea that in order to achieve great things in-game, that you have to be grouped or working with other players. I say let those who wish to join forces do so, but by the same token don't discriminate against players who wish to stay solo by making the completion of quests impossible for them unless they do group.

[Shi]

I think most people's problem is that banning rl trading of items/pl and not bots seems hypocritical and gives the impression that bots are okay because they benefit Mythic financially but trading isn't because it only benefits some players.

that was my point.
maybe for Mythic it's CoC and 'legal' matter but when comes to players it comes only to a moral dilemma. at least how i see it

[Gandelf]

that was my point.
maybe for Mythic it's CoC and 'legal' matter but when comes to players it comes only to a moral dilemma. at least how i see it

You hit the nail right on the head!