Daoc will always be my first love of mmorpgs and I have memories i'll simply never forget. Having played Wow for a long time, and being one of the few who actually enjoyed ToA :X It makes me laugh now when i see ex daoc players who quote ToA as their reasons for leaving Daoc. ToA was so much easier and more enjoyable that grinding the same instances for months and months on end...
Daoc's pve and pvp casual nature is a winning combination that I hope to see carry on over into warhammer (war) tbh. Although I'll never return to daoc after becoming far to adapted to wow game engine i do look forward to seeing war released.
ToA > Wow pve
ToA > Wow pve
Hibernia, Ywain 3
Nikolaas - 50 Ranger rr7.5
Nikolaas - 50 Ranger rr7.5
Getting to level 60 is such a tiny part of the player progression in wow.. Joining raids to the likes of molten core or blackwing lair with your guild take weeks and weeks of play testing before completing them. The casual aspects are over very quickly in your characters life in wow which is a real shame.
We have just reached Nefarion in blackwing lair.. the whole instance has taken us about 8 weeks to master and for 6 of those weeks we were stuck on the 2nd boss there.. Now we are on the final boss i know its going to take like another 5 weeks before we can master the enounter /cries.
We have just reached Nefarion in blackwing lair.. the whole instance has taken us about 8 weeks to master and for 6 of those weeks we were stuck on the 2nd boss there.. Now we are on the final boss i know its going to take like another 5 weeks before we can master the enounter /cries.
Hibernia, Ywain 3
Nikolaas - 50 Ranger rr7.5
Nikolaas - 50 Ranger rr7.5
-
Takitothemacs
- Emerald Rider
- Posts: 876
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:00 pm
always thought toa was one of the best things to happen to daoc. At first it was a bit shite having to level on specific mobs, but the encounters were always fun and i liked the challenge of getting a rare item like SoM which was f*ck hard to get when toa first came out. daoc needed something like toa to keep it up to speed.
Piikeh/SH/r40/rr4X
<White Rose>
R.I.P Severance
<White Rose>
R.I.P Severance
PVE 1-59 in WoW is far more fun than 1-49 in Daoc. I got several toons to 60 in WoW just because levelling up is so much fun. Then hit the horrible endgame grind (grind for faction, grind for gear, grind for rank) and just parked them. If 1-49 in Daoc is so good then why would Mythic ever have needed to implement /level 20 and free levels? That alone says it all about Daoc PvE. It's so tedious that after the novelty of your first toon few can bear to level another without free levels, powerlevelling, buffbots etc.
PvE raid endgame in both games is rubbish. Whether ToA MLs or WoW instance grinding, both are painfully tedious after the first run through (yes, the actual MLs in ToA can be interesting the first time through but you lose the will to live if you want to ToA up alts). I do agree that even ToA (especially since they made it easier) is preferable to the nonsense that is Molten Core etc in WoW.
Whether it's Daoc or WoW, being forced to do large raids with afk leechers, semi afk people watching TV and not listening to the leader, people argueing, people squabbling about loot splits and having to deal with the downright socially dysfunctional is not my idea of gaming heaven.
PvP endgame in Daoc is of course superior to the utter banal rubbish that is the WoW PvP endgame. But it's all got too hardcore (perhaps because all the casuals went off to play WoW) and there's still too many bugs, exploits and class imbalances after all this time.
I'm still waiting for the game that has the levelling fun of WoW and the RvR fun of Daoc, but with no endgame timesinks, with a decent loot system that avoids all the pathetic arguments and with proper class balance not handled via nerfs. Such a game should also be equally enjoyable when played small group, large group, solo and duo. Well I can dream
PvE raid endgame in both games is rubbish. Whether ToA MLs or WoW instance grinding, both are painfully tedious after the first run through (yes, the actual MLs in ToA can be interesting the first time through but you lose the will to live if you want to ToA up alts). I do agree that even ToA (especially since they made it easier) is preferable to the nonsense that is Molten Core etc in WoW.
Whether it's Daoc or WoW, being forced to do large raids with afk leechers, semi afk people watching TV and not listening to the leader, people argueing, people squabbling about loot splits and having to deal with the downright socially dysfunctional is not my idea of gaming heaven.
PvP endgame in Daoc is of course superior to the utter banal rubbish that is the WoW PvP endgame. But it's all got too hardcore (perhaps because all the casuals went off to play WoW) and there's still too many bugs, exploits and class imbalances after all this time.
I'm still waiting for the game that has the levelling fun of WoW and the RvR fun of Daoc, but with no endgame timesinks, with a decent loot system that avoids all the pathetic arguments and with proper class balance not handled via nerfs. Such a game should also be equally enjoyable when played small group, large group, solo and duo. Well I can dream
Gonna cya in WAR manCernos wrote:PVE 1-59 in WoW is far more fun than 1-49 in Daoc. I got several toons to 60 in WoW just because levelling up is so much fun. Then hit the horrible endgame grind (grind for faction, grind for gear, grind for rank) and just parked them. If 1-49 in Daoc is so good then why would Mythic ever have needed to implement /level 20 and free levels? That alone says it all about Daoc PvE. It's so tedious that after the novelty of your first toon few can bear to level another without free levels, powerlevelling, buffbots etc.
PvE raid endgame in both games is rubbish. Whether ToA MLs or WoW instance grinding, both are painfully tedious after the first run through (yes, the actual MLs in ToA can be interesting the first time through but you lose the will to live if you want to ToA up alts). I do agree that even ToA (especially since they made it easier) is preferable to the nonsense that is Molten Core etc in WoW.
Whether it's Daoc or WoW, being forced to do large raids with afk leechers, semi afk people watching TV and not listening to the leader, people argueing, people squabbling about loot splits and having to deal with the downright socially dysfunctional is not my idea of gaming heaven.
PvP endgame in Daoc is of course superior to the utter banal rubbish that is the WoW PvP endgame. But it's all got too hardcore (perhaps because all the casuals went off to play WoW) and there's still too many bugs, exploits and class imbalances after all this time.
I'm still waiting for the game that has the levelling fun of WoW and the RvR fun of Daoc, but with no endgame timesinks, with a decent loot system that avoids all the pathetic arguments and with proper class balance not handled via nerfs. Such a game should also be equally enjoyable when played small group, large group, solo and duo. Well I can dream
Gahn LoneWolf Celt Seraph Tiarna Prydwen
Na Fianna Dragun
Gahn Lonewolf Guardian [TDA] on Gunnar's Hold
Na Fianna Dragun
Gahn Lonewolf Guardian [TDA] on Gunnar's Hold
Although I dislike the pve grinding aspects i'm an important part of our guild raiding team in wow.. I want to be able to be there when we take down Nefarion.. The whole instance has been one massive team effort.. each class needs to do everything right along the way or you run the risk of causing a wipe. Once we get Nefarion down the guild then starts to farm the instance for imba items. It's when instances get on to farm status that the whole thing becomes boring and empty.
Daoc although an excellent game lets me down with its control.. I've become far to reliant on my 5 button mouse and FPS style movements. I tried to come back to daoc 6 months ago and found the daoc engine far to stiff and unplayable.
I do miss the casual nature of daoc.. and very much the toa style pve elements where anyone can join in. The pressure to join in and contribute night after night in wow is just insane! I remember coming back from SWG and getting ML1 the same week after just starting Toa.. a lot of my mates in daoc were really suprised lol, thats nothing compared to the stress of pve in wow hehe
Daoc although an excellent game lets me down with its control.. I've become far to reliant on my 5 button mouse and FPS style movements. I tried to come back to daoc 6 months ago and found the daoc engine far to stiff and unplayable.
I do miss the casual nature of daoc.. and very much the toa style pve elements where anyone can join in. The pressure to join in and contribute night after night in wow is just insane! I remember coming back from SWG and getting ML1 the same week after just starting Toa.. a lot of my mates in daoc were really suprised lol, thats nothing compared to the stress of pve in wow hehe
Hibernia, Ywain 3
Nikolaas - 50 Ranger rr7.5
Nikolaas - 50 Ranger rr7.5
Very good post Cernos
Just a couple of points I would make, given that we are stuck with the large raids in both games, I much prefer the Wow implementation. The loot system is fine, it allows a number of methods for distribution, and if used correctly avoids any chance of people "stealing" items. The arguments left are those that can't be solved by game mechanics.
Also afkers & leechers have a harder time in WoW, whilst they may be able to get away with it in MC with an established MC guild, every person needs to be awake and concentrating when it comes to BWL & AQ40, simply because numbers are limited and encounters are balanced to those numbers, unlike DAOC where you can just as easily zerg an encounter with 200 people as do it with 40.
Other than that I pretty much agree with everything you said
Just a couple of points I would make, given that we are stuck with the large raids in both games, I much prefer the Wow implementation. The loot system is fine, it allows a number of methods for distribution, and if used correctly avoids any chance of people "stealing" items. The arguments left are those that can't be solved by game mechanics.
Also afkers & leechers have a harder time in WoW, whilst they may be able to get away with it in MC with an established MC guild, every person needs to be awake and concentrating when it comes to BWL & AQ40, simply because numbers are limited and encounters are balanced to those numbers, unlike DAOC where you can just as easily zerg an encounter with 200 people as do it with 40.
Other than that I pretty much agree with everything you said